Talk:Kibbutz
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Talk:Kibbutz
Former featured articleKibbutz is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on May 17, 2005.
Current status: Former featured article

Adding more in hatnote

Kibbutz (album) should be added as part of one hatnote. Also, another hatnote containing a link to recently created dabpage Kibbitz (disambiguation) should be added as well. --George Ho (talk) 06:08, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

I made the changes you requested. Kibbitz, which is where Kibbitz (disambiguation) redirects, includes disambiguations of kibbutz as well, so maybe "Not to be confused with Kibbitz." isn't the best language for the hatnote. What do you think? -- Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 22:31, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
PS - Thank you for archiving the ancient discussions on this page. -- Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 22:31, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
@George Ho: How about moving the Kibbitz (disambiguation) page to Kibbutz (disambiguation). Kibbitz had only two entries with no links to any individual articles, on the other hand, Kibbutz had three entries linking to different links. What do you think? regards, DRAGON BOOSTER ? 07:14, 6 January 2017 (UTC).
If you click the "View user right group" in my profile or somewhere, you see that I gave up my rights to edit ECP. Id est I won't edit this page or any other EC-protected pages. George Ho (talk) 07:49, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

I'm confused by the situation. "Kibbitz" redirects to "Kibitzer". I can't find anything to verify that "kibbitz" is an accepted alternate spelling of "kibitz". In any case, I don't think that part of the hat belongs here. I think it's potentially misleading. A hat to distinguish kibitzing from kibbutzim may be in order. Perhaps "Kibbitz" should redirect here as a misspelling of kibbutz. I just don't see the value in a hat warning of potential confusion between kibbutzim and a made-up word. Joefromrandb (talk) 01:31, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Actually, Wiktionary gives "kibbitz" as an alternate spelling of "kibitz". Further, the disambig page links to articles for "Bernie Kibbitz" and "Sid Kibbitz", so I guess redirecting it here is a non-starter. I still share Malik's concern that, "not to be confused with Kibbitz" is less that ideal. Joefromrandb (talk) 01:44, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 May 2017

The first religious kibbutz was not Ein Tzurim - it was Kibbutz Tirat Tzvi, founded in 1937 in the Bet Shean Valley. 212.150.177.199 (talk) 10:57, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. DRAGON BOOSTER ? 16:42, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

"Regular plural"

@User:Malik Shabazz: I modeled that after the article "Goy", which says, "regular plural goyim". "Regular plural" may not be the best choice of words for either article, I admit. I was basically acknowledging that plurals ending in "s" for Hebrew loanwords occasionally appear in English, and while they're technically not incorrect, they are less-preferred than their "im"-ending counterparts. While there's no question that "kibbutzim" is the plural of "kibbutz", I do find dictionary entries for "kibbutzes" (and "goys"). Joefromrandb (talk) 05:00, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. It's a phrase I don't think I had seen before. -- MShabazz Talk/Stalk 11:03, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Westermarck effect

I'll be straightforward here in saying that I'm not super informed on the finer points of popflock.com resource editing, namely what causes this article to be unable to be edited, but under "sexual imprinting" the entry on the Westermarck effect cites out to this page in saying that said effect can be seen in the Kibbutz system, but there is no citation there nor is there any citation here as to who exactly is asserting this. On the main page for the Westermarck effect there is one single source that appears to back up that claim, but in the same article under "criticisms" it asserts that, in fact, another study made, arguably, a more solid assertion that the Westermarck effect was not in play, as they found co-reared peers may not have married but DID report substantial attraction to each other.

So why exactly is the claim about the Westermarck effect supposedly being in play here not cited here, in this article that by not being able to be edited to me suggests that it should be held to a higher level of scrutiny, and why exactly is it not really mentioned that the claim, which is held up by one single citation, based entirely on conjecture, has as equally as much evidence refuting it? If a potentially controversial subject like the Westermarck effect is going to be mentioned at all then care should be undertaken to ensure it's actually presented accurately. Yes, some have, with no solid evidence, attributed the conservatism to the Westermarck effect, but further studies have laid a solid case for that not being accurate.

I don't even know if this is how one would go about suggesting a change to this, but that's largely because I haven't figured out why I can't edit this but I can edit other pages. Perhaps it's because it's deemed "high importance", but if it's so important then I really feel like it's important enough that a random guy like me shouldn't be finding material to take issue with on such a basic levelPenguinato23 (talk) 01:34, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Hi, Penguinato23. This article is "edit-protected" because, like most articles related to Israel and Palestine, it is subject to a restriction that allows only editors who have made at least 500 edits and whose accounts have been registered at least 30 days to edit them.
This is intended to be an encyclopedia article for the general reader about what a kibbutz is, what their history is, their role (historic and current) in Israel and the Yishuv (the Jewish community in Mandatory Palestine before the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948), and so on. Part of that history, of course, is that children on many (perhaps most) kibbutzim were raised communally. The question of whether the Westermarck effect is real, and whether it was evident among children raised on kibbutzim, is probably a little more detail than the typical reader who is interested in a kibbutz wants. That's really more of a psychological or sexual issue than one of Israeli culture and history.
I hope that's a little bit helpful. Talk:Westermarck effect or Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sexology and sexuality might be a better place to suggest improvements concerning Wikipedia's coverage of the Westermarck effect. -- Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 02:23, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 April 2018

The section on emotional involvement is not accurate. according Mordecai Kaffman's paper published in the american journal of psychiatry, "No evidence was found of unusual percentage of behavior problems attributable to emotional deprivation" The study can be found here: https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/abs/10.1176/ajp.117.8.732 , similar conclusions are reached by Leon Eisenberg and Peter B. Neubauer found here: http://www.jaacap.com/article/S0002-7138(09)61938-5/pdf , among others. I wish to update the section with more accurate information 91and71 (talk) 13:57, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 17:04, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

Bettelheim

Perhaps when discussing Bettelheim's opinions on the psychology of kibbutzniks, it should be noted somewhere that he's been thoroughly discredited as an expert?
Although the article mentions at the end of the section anecdotal evidence proving him wrong on specific findings, the way it's written now overall, it doesn't even hint at those findings being anything other than mistaken conclusions of legit research by an actual scientist. So one would have to take the time to read Bettelheim's own wiki page to find out otherwise. That's a problem IMO.
Considering especially how... bold some of Bettelheim's cited opinions are, I don't think they should be presented as is without the context of him being basically a quack/fraud.--109.196.118.133 (talk) 18:16, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

If you wish to add any qualification of Bettleheim, you can open an edit request on this page. That should specify either A)the exact text you think needs to be removed or B)the text you'd like added and the existing text you think the addition should follow or C)the existing text you'd like changed and the exact text you'd like to see in its place. You will need to supply reliable sources that support any text changes you propose and ensure the proposed text otherwise complies with the core content policies. The original research policy is likely also relevant. I hope this helps. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 18:39, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

Opinions and more opinions with little citation.

Seems that this whole article has been written in order to promote the socialist/collectivist agenda even though facts within the kibbutz themselves have shown, beyond doubt, that there had to be an adhesion to capitalistic principles in order for them to become something of a viable system. This is downplayed in the article whereas collectivist "benefits" are overly advertised. This whole article reminds me of the communist propaganda found in "encyclopaedias" like the "Great Soviet Encyclopaedia" where everything was great and advancing. But reality can't be altered with words on a site and popflock.com resource needs to adhere to scientific evidence, ALWAYS accompanied by citations and discourage political malevolence, here in the form of political propaganda by ideologue editors. -- Preceding unsigned comment added by C R O M (talk o contribs) 20:38, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Substitute Terms

In the ideology of the kibbutz section there is a sentence that reads as follows: "Kibbutzim were run as collective enterprises within Israel's partly free market system". Wouldn't it be better to swap out partly free market system with mixed economy? Mixed economy is in my opinion correct technically & it is a neutral identification that doesn't have the negative baggage that free market does. GRosado 04:20, 6 June 2018 (UTC) -- Preceding unsigned comment added by GRosado (talk o contribs)

Fix a Typo

Can someone change the "leadig" to "leading" in "Ideological disputes were also widespread, leadig to painful splits"? Brobotics Brofessor (talk) 15:12, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

 Done, thanks. Noon (talk) 16:02, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

Privatisation paragraph is useless

... to the user as it is now.

A. Nonsensical: the production in the privatised form looks more kibbutz-regulated than in the unprivatised form. Also, the sources are older (1989, 93) than the info (1999 and later)!?!

B. The info is too technical for the layman, and too poor fot the legally trained user.

C. The multitude of individual privatisation solution packages adopted by individual kibbutzim since 1999 is a basic info, and it's not even mentioned.

Who can fix it? Cheers, Arminden (talk) 07:27, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 August 2019

Just a suggestion for updating a syntax error - the plural of kibbutz is used frequently(146 times if I remember correctly), while in Hebrew the correct phrase is ?(Kibbutzim, but that's loosely translated),in english, shouldn't it actually be kibbutzs? kibbutz's? 212.29.214.50 (talk) 12:10, 18 August 2019 (UTC)


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